Comparing M vs. RS vs. AMG Power

"gometz" (gometz)
08/22/2013 at 15:43 • Filed to: BMW, M3, M4, AMG, RS4, Mercedes, Audi

So with all of the discussion on how much power the new M3/4 will have, I got bored and made a chart for us.

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So here you have a chart 1992-2012, B/A is the ratio of horsepower the BMW had vs. the Audi, B/M BMW vs Mercedes.

So how does it all fare:

- B/A average (0.934) and B/M average (0.982) are similar. The overall comparison is 0.968.

- On average all three manufacturers jump by 40-50 hp per generation (I ignored the C34 to C55 jump since they were both W203). The smallest jump was the E36 to E46 (only 17 hp).

- Generational increase is 13.3% on average, but varies widely from 5.1% to 24.59% (st. dev. of 7.9%!)

Now why did I do this? (other than being burnt out from a 3 hour teleconference) First off, I think the M3/4 will have an increase in power. Simple marketing dictates that it MUST.

So what can we expect? Since even the E36 to E46 jump was 17 hp, I think it is safe to assume 430hp is assured. If we go by percentage increased: 435hp.

What do I think (as if you cared, since I am just some random guy with excel and too much time)? 440-450hp. I think that will be the sweet spot. It will be close enough to the RS4/5 and the C63. The next C-AMG (I am guessing they will reuse the C55 name for it), will likely have even more power but will be unlikely to be able to handle as well as a BMW.

So... ya, that was fun.

Other bits:

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Interesting trends: Audi's increases have been declining while Mercedes' have been increasing. BMW seemed to really try and play catch-up with the E9X models (with the strange coincidence in hp to the B7 RS4).

DISCUSSION (19)

Saracen > gometz
08/22/2013 at 15:51

The leaked documents show that the F80 M3 will not have an increase in power in the base version. Power is listed as 310kw, or 416hp. Sorry, that's fact.

However, it's losing 300 pounds and gaining %33 more peak torque (though you can bet that gain of the area under the curve will be much larger than %33). That is an improvement of nearly %10 in its power to weight ratio.

You can also bet that BMW will likely offer a Competition Pack as they do on the F10 M5 and M6, bumping up power by 20-30hp for a few grand.

Even if they don't, it's a turbocharged engine. Just get a reflash if you must have more.

Lastly I would add one more column, and by far the most important: Pounds per horsepower.

Z_Stig > Saracen
08/22/2013 at 16:25

This. I'm most intrigued by the torques (of which the S65 had none of in the E9x M3.)

And I really can't wait to see how much it weighs. With the current climate, I guess anything under 3500 lbs (getting near the E46 M) would be a win.

Saracen > Z_Stig
08/22/2013 at 16:30

Torque is 395lb-ft, and weight is likely in the 3300 range (it's going on a serious diet).

Also, the S55 redlines at 7800rpm. It won't be a low revving lump.

gometz > Saracen
08/22/2013 at 16:31

Leaked documents have been wrong in the past (either someone makes a mistake when making said document or they purposely mislead).

Would you mind sharing the location of the leaked spec sheet? I tried searching for it but could not find the one referring to 416 hp anyways (saw reference of it).

Looking at most German sites, they still seem to reference 440-450PS (which considering the range and conversion for all intensive purposes could be called 440-450hp).

Saracen > gometz
08/22/2013 at 16:44

If there is one thing I have learned regarding BMW's, it's not to doubt Bimmerpost when they get a scoop.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthr…

Proof that there will be a manual gearbox, and that the power rating is accurate (listed there in kW at 310).

I also posted this in April: http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/this-is-the-ne…

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthr…

delete-me-please123 > gometz
08/22/2013 at 16:45

These are non-US numbers correct?

Z_Stig > Saracen
08/22/2013 at 16:55

Wow, serious weight loss there. And a 7800rpm redline? Sweet!

gometz > delete-me-please123
08/22/2013 at 17:00

As far as I could I converted to hp, but used the highest hp figure available for that year.

In other words none are PS, but some were converted from kW. One of the Mercedes engines was hand built and had a range, I chose the top number.

Z_Stig > delete-me-please123
08/22/2013 at 17:00

The E36 numbers were for europe, but the E46 and E9x numbers were US spec. But the US will have virtually the same spec as Europe.

delete-me-please123 > gometz
08/22/2013 at 17:09

If using US only numbers, the increase from E36 to E46 is nearly 100HP.

gometz > Saracen
08/22/2013 at 17:10

I have an issue with everything being from a single source (bimmerpost) which also seems to have only 1 source. That VIN information could have easily been entered falsely by BMW so that no one would know ahead of time.

I'm not convinced. Sorry if I sound like a zealot, but it's multiple articles referring back to the same single leak. (If I am wrong, I owe you a beer)

gometz > delete-me-please123
08/22/2013 at 17:12

True, but I did not think that would be completely honest. While the US got only 240hp in the E36, BMW designed it to have 316hp.

Saracen > gometz
08/22/2013 at 17:17

Fair enough.

And I like IPA's.

Audi For Life > gometz
08/22/2013 at 17:21

I think we'll most likely see both "adding lightness" and more TQs in the B9 RS 4 and RS 5 with the 4.2-litre V8 most likely getting replaced with a biturbo V6.

gometz > Saracen
08/23/2013 at 13:36

Good, my Citra-Simcoe-Amarillo IPA should be done by then.

alexotics > gometz
08/24/2013 at 08:53

The horsepower race is coming to an end. BMW will lead the way.

More usable power, less fuel consumption, less C02 and road tax (in EU), and less fils a papa deaths in overpowered tail whipping monsters better suited for the track but masked as plain 5 Series BMWs.

gometz > alexotics
08/24/2013 at 13:43

Everyone keeps saying that, but the new M5 seems to indicate otherwise. 560hp, up 12% from the E60.

They know they are under attack from MB, Audi and now even Cadillac.

gometz > Audi For Life
08/24/2013 at 13:47

I think you're right that we will likely see a turbo V6 in the next generation of Audi's but they are already ahead of BMW and probably won't want to reduce their horsepower.

Again, I am not in favor of the horse power wars continuing unabated, but it does seem to be alive and well (hypercars now need to have 800+ hp).

alexotics > gometz
08/25/2013 at 10:21

I meant that this M3/4 will be the first car to start the trend. And the F10 did lose 2 cylinders from the E60. With more lower end torque and not just a jump, but a LEAP in fuel economy, I'd say that was a step in the right direction. I could be wrong, but I think BMW will be leading the 'Lotus' trend.